This is just a snippet from an ongoing conversation I had
with a scientist on the creation/evolution Yahoo! group.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks Eric,
You’ve answered
many of my questions.
Snipping again
...and popping on down
to a couple more
observations ...
<snipped>
J:
>> But we
must always bear in mind
>> that for every benefit effected by a drug
>> there are countering, often copious,
negative properties
>> ... euphemistically termed
`side-effects.' >>
E:
>In the industry we refer to them as
"adverse events" or "AEs" -which is
>not a euphamism at all. And no, certainly not
all drugs have AEs. I
>mean, just look at insulin for a diabetic.
What are the negative
>effects of proper doses of insulin for the
person who would die without
>it?
J:
It’s true isn’t it, that it only takes
one contrary fact to refute an argument?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<snipped>
J:
>> With
regard to physical health it is better to focus
>> on the psyche and its effect on the
bio-magnetic field
>> ... which is the force that lays down and
influences
>> the chemistry of the human body.
>>
E:
> Actually,
this is not at all true.
J:
I don’t feel that the data is yet available
to help us truthfully make such a negation.
Or perhaps you can enlighten me?
For example, under a microscope, when we see
the nerve end burrowing through the flesh of the
developing foetus,
how does it know the direction in which it should
burrow
if there is not already a bio-field pattern laid
down,
the gradient of which it is following?
The same with injuries, how does the
nerve, vein, artery and other tissue reknit itself
almost perfectly
when there is no apparent direction laid down
along which to follow?
If it were DNA, then what is the mechanism used
by the DNA in each cell to orient its multiplication
in line with the pattern of rest of the body?
The answers to these questions are casually
overlooked
.... aren’t they?
Or do you have an answer to refute my premise?
Isn’t it as if there is a subtle body pattern that
is being followed
... a phantom image that guides the process?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J:
>> Where a
symptom, an isolated symptom, is attacked
>> by a drug which is known to cause that
symptom to disappear,
>> it has not caused the cause of the
symptom to disappear,
>> it has caused that symptom to regress,
and the energy
>> that was then appearing spreads through
the body
>> and appears as other symptoms.
>>
E:
>Perhaps you
might think of one or two maladies where this sort of thing
>is the case, but for the vast majority I'd say
this is simply untrue.
>That is not to say that some treatments don't
have unintended
>consequences perhaps on other organ systems,
but it does not work how
>you assert, with the energy of the repressed
sumptom moving off to
>create a problem elsewhere.
J:
Then it could be that a paradigm shift is required
in order to at least affirm it as a possibility.
Hey, Ho.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J:
>> The
first disease is then said to be cured,
>> and the patient then has something else.
>> And this is simply the holistic balancing
fact
>> that if you stress one and you beat it,
>> a revolution goes through the whole being
>> and alters the relation of all the parts.
>
>> To put it another way,
>> drugs are actually energy packets,
>> so they have their own frequencies.
>> It is a well known fact whether in music
or in physics
>> that if you introduce a tone of a certain
frequency
>> into the midst of some other tones,
>> ALL the tones have to adjust to this
newly introduced tone,
>> and some of them condense and some of
them disperse.
>> When you insert a drug into a patient,
>> that dispenses its own resonance,
>> it dispenses the bio-chemical energies
causing the symptoms
>> so that the patient becomes symptom-free
>> ... but the basic problem still remains.
E:
>Nope.
Complete bunk. It doesn't work that way. If you really want to
>minimize adverse event and unintended
consequences of medicines and
>other treatments it would be best to actually
seek to understand how the
>body really works rather than rely on this New
Agey pseudoscientific
>malarkey, John.
J:
Chuckles ... thanks for the synopsis.
Such a view gives man the status of a mere machine
... a view diametrically opposed to that of Planck’s.
Perhaps we’ll label him New Age also
... wicked grins
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
<snipped>
J:
>> Ah,
yes, the X Files, "The truth is out there".
>> I don't believe that the truth really is
out there. >>
E:
>Sad. Then you have resigned yourself to going
through life believing in
>and relying on falshoods? That's such a shame.
I can't think of a
>bigger waste of one's time here on Earth.
J:
Then you’re not thinking hard enough
:)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J:
>>
Spiritual handbooks written thousands of years ago
>> like the Tao Teh King, The Secret of The
Golden Flower,
>> the Bhagavad Gita, and The Gospel of John
>> exhibit an understanding of the world
>> that Max Planck gives voice to in the
quotes I offered.
>> Wisdom is within,
>> "the kingdom is within".
> >
E:
>All these
spiritual and philosophical works are wonderful and
>fascinating and I am a big proponent of
contemplation, meditation and
>self-examination. BUT, if you don't start with
some truths, some
>examination and observations of the world
around you then all this
>contemplation and working out of meanings will
NOT lead to anything like
>wisdom. All this philosophy, meditation and
thinking are forms of
>processing, informational and emotional
processing. You've got to have
>the raw materials to process if you want to
generate anything of
>substance and worth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J:
>> As a
race, we may know more and more.
>> As individuals dedicated to a scientific
particular,
>> we learn more and more about less and
less.
E:
>Yes. That is
another way of saying that our knowledge is becoming more
>and more detailed. And then every now and then
sweeping correlations
>and syntheses are made across broad fields of
inquiry... and the process
>is continually repeated.
J:
That’s the trick: first we analyse, then we
synthesise.
We use the left side of the brain to analyse,
and the right hand to synthesise.
I see the dancer turning clockwise
(seen from above)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J:
>> To gain
`understanding', we must `stand under'
>> and fully appreciate all that we see,
feel and do,
>> ... whatever our life's direction.
>>
E:
> OK, but
note here that you include "see." This is observation;
> information gathering; collecting of
real-world data. That is one of
> the key steps to science, to unveiling the
truth 'out there'- which you
> above say you don't even believe in...
J:
I’m right there wit’ ya bro’.
Remembering that sight is a superficial experience.
But if we want to become absolutely
conscious
we must become more and more sensitive in
the feeling.
It is no good trying to do it by being
sensitive
in the logical department only,
because that is merely a matter of external
formal equivalence.
Remember that when your eye registers a
message
... it might look at a triangle, and that
triangle
goes in the back of the eye and meets
another
picture of a triangle engrammed on the
brain.
If that triangle corresponds with the one
outside exactly,
that kind of equivalence is the one that we
would call
the equivalence of the rational mind,
basing its conclusions on empirical data.
And that itself is not very, very sensitive
compared with the feeling centre, properly
educated.
Don’t forget the appreciation of what we feel and
do, Eric.
Without that we are not living life fully.
By ‘feeling’ I mean feeling sensitivity ...
sentience.
Perhaps then we can agree that there are three
phases of development?
(1) The sense organ stimulus;
The sense-organ stimulus gives the gross,
physically identified sentience
a form to which a reaction is required ... or not.
(2) Language, built with words;
Language substitutes words for sense-organ stimuli.
(3) The symbol.
Symbol allows transcendence of both present
sense-organ stimulus
and of the established referential value of words,
with ‘value’ here meaning ‘indicator-power’.
Symbols enrich our conception of the real.
They allow us to make an absolute beginning,
a fresh start freed from all earlier starts.
They extend infinitely man's potentialities
of thought, aesthetic appreciation and action.
It may be that you are still busy
in the first two phases of evolutionary development.
And that’s perfect too.
Good to know you Eric.
You really are exhibiting a wonderful amount of
patience.
Love, john
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